Matt and Dean hung out with Vincent Lloyd in real life, so we decided to bring him back on the show to talk about his forthcoming book, In Defense of Charisma (Columbia University Press)! We talk about why people are suspicious of charisma, what’s good about charisma, how charisma functions in organizing contexts, and more!

Also, next week is our 50th episode, and we need your help! Send us your questions, comments, favorite episodes, favorite guests, reflections on the show, etc., and we might read your response! Our email is If you’re feeling really ambitious, you can even give us a call at leave a voicemail that we might play on air by calling 815-408-0745!

Intro/transition music by Amaryah Armstrong
Outro music by theillalogicalspoon